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I..don't know about most. I love Lothal.
I only hated what the Empire did to it.
I only hated what the Empire did to it.
There's no such thing as loving too freely. Only mistakes made, in action.
The Empire stripped down the local government. Put a governor appointed by the Emperor and a garrison in place. Kicked people out of the homes and off their farms, and push them into shanty towns. Arrested my parents and a bunch of other people for speaking out, and kept them locked up for years and years.
Murdered people for nearly any excuse and called it punishment for treason. Mined out swaths of land, and burned forest, so much the damage could be seen from space. Blockaded it and cut it off from trade. Bombarded the capital city.
I could go on.
The Empire stripped down the local government. Put a governor appointed by the Emperor and a garrison in place. Kicked people out of the homes and off their farms, and push them into shanty towns. Arrested my parents and a bunch of other people for speaking out, and kept them locked up for years and years.
Murdered people for nearly any excuse and called it punishment for treason. Mined out swaths of land, and burned forest, so much the damage could be seen from space. Blockaded it and cut it off from trade. Bombarded the capital city.
I could go on.
There is. Like all emotion, if it consumes you, you'll make bad decisions. Love is two-faced with light and dark energies. Love makes people stupid.
[As he had been for loving his brothers, and still remained stupid in his own way for continuing to love his elder brother deeply despite knowing the loss of his younger one. Love was a blight, but he freely accepted it for Maul.]
Why didn't the people stop the Empire? Were they too frightened or unskilled?
[As he had been for loving his brothers, and still remained stupid in his own way for continuing to love his elder brother deeply despite knowing the loss of his younger one. Love was a blight, but he freely accepted it for Maul.]
Why didn't the people stop the Empire? Were they too frightened or unskilled?
Any emotion can become attachment. Yes, sure. To love wisely and compassionately takes discipline. But the Jedi way is to strive to be able to offer that to anyone.
People were both scared and not used to fighting.
People were both scared and not used to fighting.
Edited 2022-03-24 02:30 (UTC)
To the Jedi, I'm a monster. Yet they are as bad as we are with their child soldiers. They don't love wisely or compassionately. They are about control.
If they aren't willing to defend what is theirs, they have no right to keep it from someone or something willing to take it from them.
If they aren't willing to defend what is theirs, they have no right to keep it from someone or something willing to take it from them.
I'm a Jedi. Do I treat you like a monster? Does Master Kenobi?
And you do realize Darth Sidious set up the entire war, right? That he orchestrated things so he was the one giving orders made in bad faith?
And you do realize Darth Sidious set up the entire war, right? That he orchestrated things so he was the one giving orders made in bad faith?
Edited 2022-03-24 09:10 (UTC)
No, but you haven't watched me kill clones, Jedi and droids either. You might treat me differently if you saw me in my element. [There was a snort.] He did, yes. Now he seems to have decided to pry me away from my loyalty to my brother, but he's given up on that lately so perhaps he's realized I'm nothing more than a monster and a lost cause.
[He didn't muster much in the way of care. What the Jedi did were their business, and it seemed they had their hands full with Skywalker.]
It wouldn't surprise me, no. He's a Sith, and he was playing the long game to destroy his enemies and consolidate power. But if people don't fight, what they have will be taken from them.
[He didn't muster much in the way of care. What the Jedi did were their business, and it seemed they had their hands full with Skywalker.]
It wouldn't surprise me, no. He's a Sith, and he was playing the long game to destroy his enemies and consolidate power. But if people don't fight, what they have will be taken from them.
If I see you hurting and killing people, just because you can, then yes, I will try to stop you. I might speak in anger, because anger is natural, and I'm far from perfect.
But my intention would be protecting people. Which is what the Jedi were doing, in the war. Not control.
You control your actions.
But my intention would be protecting people. Which is what the Jedi were doing, in the war. Not control.
You control your actions.
I kill because I am ordered to, I need to eat, or someone annoyed me enough to earn it.
[He enjoyed fighting and winning, but he actually wasn't particularly interested in killing just because.]
War Generals are not protectors. They are warriors designed to minimize causalities, but they still kill and destroy.
I do.
[He enjoyed fighting and winning, but he actually wasn't particularly interested in killing just because.]
War Generals are not protectors. They are warriors designed to minimize causalities, but they still kill and destroy.
I do.
Civilians were being killed, in masse, by the Separatist army. In a war, that, again, Palpatine had set up to be the only real winner. He had the clone army created, to be a trap, although the Jedi didn't know that. He wanted them to take command.
What, exactly, was the Order supposed to do? If they did nothing, people still died.
What, exactly, was the Order supposed to do? If they did nothing, people still died.
Sifo-Dyas of the Jedi commissioned the clone army once the Sith were revealed to exist.
[That had been drilled into his head by Darth Tyranus during one of his history lessons.]
Jedi weren't peacekeepers but soldiers same as the clones they commanded.
And even when they did something, people still died. And they died right along with them.
[That had been drilled into his head by Darth Tyranus during one of his history lessons.]
Jedi weren't peacekeepers but soldiers same as the clones they commanded.
And even when they did something, people still died. And they died right along with them.
There's some evidence Sifo-Dyas was involved, yes. One Jedi. Maybe. Master Kenobi and I talked about it. Palpatine was definitely involved. The clones have chips in their heads, with orders. The plan is - was- in my time, for Palaptine to use those to take away the clone's free will and have them turn on the Jedi. I've seen evidence these chips exist, for myself. It makes no sense for them to work that way, if the Jedi really were in charge of their creation.
The Council and the rest of the Order didn't know about the clones until the war was breaking out. The Order wasn't perfect, because nothing is, but it did what it could to keep peace for a thousand years. Until Dooku was on one side. Palpatine on the other. Making sure there was a war.
The Council and the rest of the Order didn't know about the clones until the war was breaking out. The Order wasn't perfect, because nothing is, but it did what it could to keep peace for a thousand years. Until Dooku was on one side. Palpatine on the other. Making sure there was a war.
[Chips in their heads? He'd never heard of that, but it didn't matter to him either. The clones died just the same with or without these chips.]
Clones had no free will to begin with. They were bred and born to be soldiers. They were slaves with or without chips.
[Though, even he could admit the brilliance of the plan that his Master had only subtly hinted at. Building an army, let it get battle-hardened and then turn it on the very masters they served.
Huh.
Oh.
He'd done that. Sort of. When he turned on his Master and then again on Ventress in the span of a few minutes.]
Darth Tyranus had his own plans in play, but I heard he died too. He wasn't the worst Master.
Clones had no free will to begin with. They were bred and born to be soldiers. They were slaves with or without chips.
[Though, even he could admit the brilliance of the plan that his Master had only subtly hinted at. Building an army, let it get battle-hardened and then turn it on the very masters they served.
Huh.
Oh.
He'd done that. Sort of. When he turned on his Master and then again on Ventress in the span of a few minutes.]
Darth Tyranus had his own plans in play, but I heard he died too. He wasn't the worst Master.
And that anyone is born and bred to be soldiers, by anyone, is horrible. It shouldn't have happened. The Senate should have done something. Made a volunteer army, and given the clones citizenship, maybe.
The only clone brothers I've known personally just wanted to do good. Several of them volunteered to come with me to help end the blockade and occupation of Lothal.
So it's a little insulting to say they had no free will.
The only clone brothers I've known personally just wanted to do good. Several of them volunteered to come with me to help end the blockade and occupation of Lothal.
So it's a little insulting to say they had no free will.
That's why I was born.
[He could understand the clones on that level at least. Any yelling about it wasn't going to change that it happened, would continue to happen, and that's how certain worlds operated.
Savage growled, a nerve struck.]
What would you know about the levels of free will when you've never been born having your life dictated to you? It's always in the back of your mind, the lessons, the orders, the constant reminder of your singular purpose. What do you know about being nothing but a future body count, and the most useful part of you is the flesh you wear?
You wouldn't know. Don't pretend you do. You were born with the gift, and you were free to do whatever you wanted with it rather than hide it like I did.
[He could understand the clones on that level at least. Any yelling about it wasn't going to change that it happened, would continue to happen, and that's how certain worlds operated.
Savage growled, a nerve struck.]
What would you know about the levels of free will when you've never been born having your life dictated to you? It's always in the back of your mind, the lessons, the orders, the constant reminder of your singular purpose. What do you know about being nothing but a future body count, and the most useful part of you is the flesh you wear?
You wouldn't know. Don't pretend you do. You were born with the gift, and you were free to do whatever you wanted with it rather than hide it like I did.
[The padawan was quiet a moment.]
Ok. Maybe I don't exactly get it. We come from very different backgrounds.
But I wasn't exactly born free, either. My parents taught me to hide from Imperial soldiers. I think they suspected I was Force sensitive, but they didn't tell me with those words.
And then I raised myself, from when they were taken away when I was seven, until Kanan found me when I was 14. All I knew was something told me staying apart from people felt safer, and that I spooked other orphans.
Kanan told me what I was. And that Empire kills or enslaves people like us. When I accepted his offer to teach me, I knew we'd be hunted.
Ok. Maybe I don't exactly get it. We come from very different backgrounds.
But I wasn't exactly born free, either. My parents taught me to hide from Imperial soldiers. I think they suspected I was Force sensitive, but they didn't tell me with those words.
And then I raised myself, from when they were taken away when I was seven, until Kanan found me when I was 14. All I knew was something told me staying apart from people felt safer, and that I spooked other orphans.
Kanan told me what I was. And that Empire kills or enslaves people like us. When I accepted his offer to teach me, I knew we'd be hunted.
Then don't preach at me what is to know what free will is when those clones and I are nothing more than pale comparisons of better man. We know our purpose, and we served.
[Maybe it was the first time he recognized the comparison. Now he was just plain mad about it.]
All Empires kill or enslave, especially if you are something 'special'. You sound like you had people that actually cared about you enough to protect you.
[Maybe it was the first time he recognized the comparison. Now he was just plain mad about it.]
All Empires kill or enslave, especially if you are something 'special'. You sound like you had people that actually cared about you enough to protect you.
I was lucky in a lot of ways. [But even as he says that, he sounds disturbed and confused.]
Savage. The clones I know - they're part of my family. People I'm lucky to know. Rex in particular taught me how to be an officer. I don't see them as pale comparisons to anything.
If any of the clone brothers came here, they get to decide if they count me as family, obviously. But I'd be honored for them to accept.
Savage. The clones I know - they're part of my family. People I'm lucky to know. Rex in particular taught me how to be an officer. I don't see them as pale comparisons to anything.
If any of the clone brothers came here, they get to decide if they count me as family, obviously. But I'd be honored for them to accept.
Well, no, not everyone. [It had taken Kanan a while to get past the trauma of the Purge and actually trust the surviving clones as people. The attitude in the Alliance in general seemed...varied.]
I can't control whatever everyone else thinks. I can argue and persuade, if I see someone being a bigot.
But you're talking like you're less than. Like you've...accepted it.
I can't control whatever everyone else thinks. I can argue and persuade, if I see someone being a bigot.
But you're talking like you're less than. Like you've...accepted it.
...You started the lecturing, first time we met. [He's not actually mad about it, just pointing it out.]
And. Uh. Yeah. That's why I started this conversation with you, directly, rather than mentally writing you off as an extension of Maul.
And. Uh. Yeah. That's why I started this conversation with you, directly, rather than mentally writing you off as an extension of Maul.
Ok. Well. If you don't care, then I guess I won't bother you more.
I cared that you know why. And talking with you – whatever else it is, it's not boring.
If you ever do want to talk more, or just do something together - non-maimy and non-lethal...let me know. That door's open.
I cared that you know why. And talking with you – whatever else it is, it's not boring.
If you ever do want to talk more, or just do something together - non-maimy and non-lethal...let me know. That door's open.
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